To me that is an insult.
To me that is like acknowledging that heathen (or pagan) really means “Hick” or “yokl”.
I am always surprised and get kind of a LARP vibe when i read things like “our folk ways”.
Their “indignation” dumbs my customs down. They really have more in common with snake handling Christians (not to be Christian bashing ) than anything that feels “Norse”.
These people belong in a heavy metal video.
I am straight but i am also educated and my mother is not married to her brother.
I belive in active studies (of academic material), a living custom through folklore and adapting to modern society while reconstructing.
In short, i am a modern Scandinavian, NOT some “Viking warrior” with a need to preserve my “folk” (“they”, regardless of how you count, seem to be doing just fine).
I am simply a person doing my best to live according to a custom such as it presents itself through academia, scientific disciplines (history, archeology, anthropology, linguistics,etymology, semiotics and so on ) ,my own culture and folklore and some philosophical and theological speculation on my own part.
Some of them are Scandinavian. I´m willing to bet they stay clear of blóts of a more mainstream (in lack of a better term) nature.
They would be verbally (at least) and intellectually bitch slapped by pretty much any follower of the custom i´ve known.
The only threat i see to Norse culture and heritage are these circus clowns.
How can anyone take heathenry seriously with these around?
In Sweden Heathenry is sometimes referred to as “en levande sed” (“a living custom).
I have often emphasized how Nordic cultures, having only been officially Christian for less than a 1000 years, are ripe with Heathenry, how our hollidays and celebrations (perhaps especially Yule and Midsummer), our names and folklore and even our Christianity, not to mention our mentality is colored by it.
This is often taken up when Scandinavians are irritated by some form of American or other non Nordic Heathenry that takes on forms that feels very incompatible to our ways to us.
I would like to make clear that this is usually not a sentiment towards the majority of American Heathenry.
One of the most creative (in every sense of the word) kindreds i know off is the “Jotun Bane Kindred” who have taken orthopraxy and put it in a place that feels like exactly the point with it (they have a community spirit that is incedible by any standards as far as i can see).
Now, ortghopraxy does not only have to do with cult acts, blots and worship of the Divine, or even with virtues and conduct, but, as i´m sure practitioners of Romuva (Lithuanian Paganism), Suomenusko (Finnish Paganism)
and many other indigenos customs would agree , folklore and tradition as a whole plays a big role. Dances, songs, sayings, all of it is a part of the custom.
So, now i was thinking i should turn my whole argument on its head (or at least so it might seem at a quick glanze).
Most Heathens and Pagans i know off internationally seem to celebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving and so on, in part to be with their (extended) families, partly to be part of community as a whole and because it feels nice.
Many might privately see the celebration in another light than those around them (“we sit at the same table, we celebrate together but as you comemorate the birth of Jesus, i give thanks to Saturn”).
Now, imagine if you will (and this probably happens) a group of Americans, gathering at a house or in a grove at Veterans Day and / or 4:th of July, giving blot to Odin and thanks for victory, freedom and the rights they enjoy. Following with a blot to the ancestors who made this possable and boasting about relatives and ancestors that made this possable and perhaps giving vows to deserve this gift to the best of their abilites.
It would look similar to the Sigr blot (Victory blot at spring), but be connected to culture, history and nationality close to the participants and probably striking a chord.
One might say that this is a new invention but actually it is MORE traditional than dressing up in viking age clothes (wich is not “wrong”).
After all, festivals and cultic celebrations where always connected to local cicumstances.
Things where not done in Iceland as they where in Sweden.
These celebrations are secular in nature and thus highly adaptable.
A Swedish Christmas table would make sense to someone living in Canada or Alaska (from a nutrition / survival standpoint) in another way than it would to a Heathen in Hawaii or Northern Australia.
Why stuff your face with fat, alcohol (well, there´s always a reason for mead) and slaughter a lot of animals at the hottest part of the year?
And why give thanks to Freyr for grain that we recieved in the North (not that we mind )?
I have eaten bananas at Christmas in Africa. In my fathers homeland a blot of chicken, beans, bread, rice and fish would make sense as well as a strong cult for Njordr and Aegir (since it is a country of islands with much fishing and marine culture) for a Heathen.
It is not a matter of abandoning traditional cult acts or their ingredients (pigs and pork still has meaning symbolically for instance). Neither is it a matter of declaring it “wrong” to dress in viking age clothes, eating traditional Swedish smorgosboard or wearing Noerwiegian folk costume ( to celebrate heritage or simply because one likes it for that matter).
Rather, it is a matter of bringing the orthoprax thought into the society , place and time in wich you live.
You have blessings from the Gods to give thanks for unique to your life and region as well as ancestors closer than the vikings, but no less heroic, that ensured that you could enjoy those gifts.
I think the LEAST you owe those that died (or even survived) 9 / 11, or WWI and WWII is a beer and some boasting.
Your tribal elders and ancestors that built the country you live in, dont they deserve a mention and a bit of respect?
Your ancestors that fought in the ghetto, died in camps, defended the Alamo, where in the French resistance where imprisoned at Robben Island feels natural as guests by the Hof to me (and they would to pre Christian Norse people too).
The Vaettir of your lands, unique to them, deserve consideration, blot and respect. The land vaettir of Minnesota are the land vaettir of Minnesota, the vaettir of Manitoba are the vaettir of Manitoba.
The advice and help from these mights are closer to you too (the vaettir being of your region and your close ancestors being closer to your own circumstances).
In Scandinavia Heathenry, like folklore in general differs by region.It always did (there are clear attestations) and probably always will.
The orthoprax idea is to bond YOUR life to the divine, not sombody elses.
This is not new, it is the very nature of the beast.
few things fail the wise;
is now come up
to men’s earthly dwellings
-Hávamál (108), Thorpe’s Translation
Óðrœrir is a fully downloadable journal dedicated to developing, fostering, and distributing scholastic literature solely regarding the reconstruction of the various pre-Christian religious traditions and cultures of Northern Europe.
It is our firm belief that while much of these traditions are completely viable in a modern setting, understanding and implementing them must be achieved through a thorough understanding of their original context. We also believe that there is too much literature available that falls very short of this mark. Thus, Óðrœrir is intended to serve as a bastion of literature that is evidence based and consistent with modern standards of academic accuracy and quality. Articles are peer reviewed by a board ranging of individuals with over forty years of experience in reconstructing “heathen” traditions, to scholars who are currently leaders in the fields of Old Nordic Religion, and Old Nordic Culture. It is our hope that with these high standards, and with the range of experience that exists on our board, thatÓðrœrir will be able to bridge the gap between scholastic wisdom of ancient heathen traditions and the implementation and practice of ongoing ones today.
I cant help but feeling that most Esoteric orders and Pagan organisations are starting to seem more and more like absolutist Churches . Everyone monopolizing some “truth” ( philosophical poppycock) and being in contact / lineage or otherwise authorized by someone kewler than who authorized the others.
Cultural appropriation is the adoption of some specific elements of one culture by a different cultural group. It describes acculturation or assimilation, but can imply a negative view towards acculturation from a minority culture by a dominant culture It can include the introduction of forms of dress or personal adornment, music and art, religion, language, or social behavior. These elements, once removed from their indigenous cultural contexts, can take on meanings that are significantly divergent from, or merely less nuanced than, those they originally held.
The term cultural appropriation can have a negative connotation. It generally is applied when the subject culture is a minority culture or somehow subordinate in social, political, economic, or military status to the appropriating culture; or, when there are other issues involved, such as a history of ethnic or racial conflict between the two groups. A more neutral term is cultural assimilation which does not imply blame.
Cultural and racial theorist, George Lipsitz, outlined this concept of cultural appropriation in his seminal term “strategic anti-essentialism.” Strategic anti-essentialism is defined as the calculated use of a cultural form, outside of your own, to define yourself or your group.
Strategic anti-essentialism can be seen both in minority cultures and majority cultures, and are not confined to only the appropriation of the other. For example, the American band Redbone, composed of founding members of Mexican heritage, essentialized their group as belonging to the Native American tradition, and are known for their famous songs in support of the American Indian Movement ”We Were All Wounded at Wounded Knee” and “Custer Had It Coming.” However, as Lipsitz argues, when the majority culture attempts to strategically anti-essentialize themselves by appropriating a minority culture, they must take great care to recognize the specific socio-historical circumstances and significance of these cultural forms so as not the perpetuate the already existing, majority vs. minority, unequal power relations.
Cultural appropriation may be defined differently in different cultures. While academics in a country such as the United States, where racial dynamics had been a cause of cultural segmentation, may see many instances of intercultural communication as cultural appropriation, other countries may identify such communication as a melting pot effect.
Cultural appropriation has also been seen as a site of resistance to dominant society when members of a marginalized group take and alter aspects of dominant culture to assert their agency and resistance. This is exemplified in the novel Crick Crack, Monkey by Merle Hodge when those who are colonized appropriate the culture of the colonizers. Another historical example were the Mods in the UK in the 1960s, working class youth who appropriated and exaggerated the highly tailored clothing of the upper middle class. Objections have been raised to such political cultural appropriation, citing class warfare and identity politics.
Justin Britt-Gibson’s article for the Washington Post looked at the appropriation of Jamaican culture by Italians and of other cultures by African-Americans as a sign of progress:
Throngs of dreadlocked Italians were smoking joints, drinking beer, grooving to the rhythms of Bob Marley, Steel Pulse and other reggae icons. Most striking was how comfortable these Italians seemed in their appropriated shoes, adopting a foreign culture and somehow making it theirs. The scene reinforced my sense of how far we’ve come since the days when people dressed, talked and celebrated only that which sprang from their own background. For the first time in my life, I was fully aware of the spiritual concept that we’re all simply one.
That sense hasn’t left me. Everywhere I look, I see young people — such as my two younger brothers, a Japanese-anime-obsessed 11-year-old and a pastel-Polo-sporting 21-year-old — adopting styles, hobbies and attitudes from outside the culture in which they were raised. Last month in a Los Angeles barbershop, I was waiting to get my trademark Afro cut when I noticed a brother in his late teens sitting, eyes closed, as the barber clipped his hair into a “‘frohawk”, the punk-inspired African American adaptation of the mohawk. Asked why he chose the look, the guy, without looking up, shrugged, “Something different.” Immediately, I understood. Minutes later, his “different” cut became my new look.
Michael Lazarus, a North American Indian in his essay Anti-racist Measures Take Culture Away From Sports published by the Lowell Observer writes that the use of an ethnic symbol by a sports team is a progressive, liberal act that can be used by a culture to embrace history rather than hide from it.
A common sort of cultural appropriation is the adoption of the iconography of another culture. Examples include sports teams using Native American tribal names, tattoos of Polynesiantribal iconography, Chinese characters, or Celtic bands worn by people who have no interest in, or understanding of, their original cultural significance. When these artifacts are regarded as objects that merely “look cool“, or when they are mass produced cheaply as consumer kitsch, people who venerate and wish to preserve their indigenous cultural traditions may be offended.
In Australia, Aboriginal artists have discussed an ‘authenticity brand’ to ensure consumers are aware of artworks claiming false Aboriginal significance. The movement for such a measure gained momentum after the 1999 conviction of John O’Loughlin for the fraudulent sale of works described as Aboriginal but painted by non-indigenous artists.
Historically, some of the most hotly debated cases of cultural appropriation have occurred in places where cultural exchange is the highest, such as along the trade routes in southwestern Asia and southeastern Europe. For instance, some scholars of the Ottoman empire and ancient Egypt argue that Ottoman and Egyptian architectural traditions have long been falsely claimed and praised as Persian or Arab,and Greco-Roman, innovations, respectively. A more subtle example is brass band music trubaci. While this kind of music is almost exclusively performed by Romani people, who may not consider themselves Serbs, many people of Serbian origin consider this to be their own style. On the other hand, when the middle-class Slovenian band Pankrti adopted the style of London punk music rooted in unemployment and other issues specific to the UK, it was seen inYugoslavia as the spread of British culture and its adaptation to the local setting.
African American culture historically has been the subject of a good deal of cultural appropriation, especially elements of its music, dance, slang, dress, and demeanor. (See blackfaceand cool.) For example, artists such as Eminem, a white American who adopted a contemporary African American musical style may be perceived this way. Another prominent example of cultural appropriation is the use of real or imaginary elements of Native American culture by North American summer camps, by organizations such as the Boy Scouts of America, or by New Age gurus, some of whom put up for commercial wholesale, paraphernalia modelled on Native American healing traditions and techniques (see plastic shamans). Many summer camps, and many age-segregated groups of campers within summer camps, are named after real Native American tribes (Mohawk, Seminole, etc.); tipis are common at summer camps for example. The Boy Scout honor society is called the Order of the Arrow.
Similarly, popular authors and non-indigenous self-styled teachers of Huna claim to be teaching authentic Native Hawaiian cultural practices, but often their notion of “Huna” is a synthesis of Freudian psychology, New Thought and New Age metaphysical beliefs.
Controversy has also arisen concerning the usage of the leprechaun mascot by the Boston Celtics basketball club and the University of Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team. Some people of Irishancestry see the usage as an example of cultural appropriation and even racism. Leprechauns appear in many Celtic mythological motifs, and the reduction of this mythological figure to a set of stereotypes and clichés may be perceived as offensive. A common term among the Irish for someone who appropriates or misrepresents Irish culture isPlastic Paddy.
In some cases, a culture usually viewed as the target of cultural appropriation can become implicated as the agent of appropriation, particularly after colonization and an extensive period re-rganization of that culture under the nation-state system. For example, the government of Ghana has been accused of cultural appropriation in adopting the Caribbean Emancipation Day and marketing it to African American tourists as an “African festival”. A bindi dot when worn as a decorative item by a non-Hindu woman could be considered cultural appropriation, along with the use of henna in mehndi as a decoration outside traditional ceremonies.
And in some contemporary Western subcultures such as gay culture, metrosexual fashion is sometimes seen as a form of cultural appropriation done by straight men. This view is parodied in the South Park episode “South Park is Gay!” Another Western-styled subculture borne in the USA called Wiggers have often been criticised by blacks for cultural appropriation. However, black street culture has been said by some to contain examples of a type of cultural appropriation. For instance, the word “innit”: – question tags such as these existed in West Country English long before it became fashionable for blacks to use them (e.g. “innum?” meaning “aren’t they?”, “inner?” meaning “isn’t he?”, “innee?” meaning “aren’t you?” etc.). Another example is consonant swapping e.g. by saying “aks” instead of “ask”: – consonant swapping has been common in the West Country for a long time e.g. “chillurn” (children), “gert” (“great”, although used to mean “very”), “Burdgwa’er” (Bridgwater) etc. In many instances though, these redefined fashion statements and changes in the way subcultural colloquialisms, slang-forms, and linguistic idioms are used often include elements that bear a resemblance to markers of cultural identity but because they are categorically as such more in the line of trends within popular culture than statements of a traditional culture, such subcultural emblematic adoption and language-use practices therefore would more aptly be described as a “borrowing” of sorts relative to the elements of one subculture being taken and implanted by another. The term cultural appropriation however is more accurately applied to those situations where indigenous cultures or oppressed minorities have been robbed of their cultural property (either overtly or more discretely) by the governments and social institutions of the majority society, and these situations have usually had turbulent historical trajectories with marked intergenerational impacts on the collective transformation undergone by both individuals and communities within these cultures.
Me, being ambivalent
At the one hand i have nothing against syncretisms or ecletism.
An infux of diverse ideas can be creative.
There are Wiccan groups (Norse Wicca,Seax Wicca and so on) using mythology and iconography from my (and other Germanic) culture in a non cultural context, BUT:
1: They dont claim that it is cultural.
2: They acknowledge that it is a syncretic religion based on their beliefs.
Reconstructivists within polytheistic religions often get verbal diarrhea over this, totally forgettingf that the main bulk of them are Americans, NOT Greek,NOT Irish,NOT Swedish and have generally never even visited these places whos culture they try to “preserve” (I have done sacrificial rituals in both Greece, when it was illegal, and Ireland).´
Dont get me wrong, the American reconstructivists treating our traditions with respect (and they generally do) and applying academic knowledge to what they do and say (they generally do that too) are worthy of all respect.
But having a heritage from somewhere is NOT the same as being from there.
If that was the case we would all be Congolese (and i think the goverment of the Republic of Congo would object to that).
It is the” Holier than thou” attitude i have a problem with.
Not to mention (in my personal case) when something is presented as “Norse” when any 8 year old Swede could say that it´s not (like McNallens “Meta watsmacallit”).
My country has not been “officially” Christian for even a 1000 years yet (last Heathen king was killed in 1083).
A lot of what we are and do is still as Heathen as it gets. Maybe we actually know somthing about our own culture?
We dont read about the Norse in Llewellyn paperbacks, we ARE thew Norse. Today we are defined as Nordic (or sometimes mistakingly as Scandinavians, though that is too limiting).
People of the “Sed” (Custom) in Scandinavia. more often than not, seems unaware of any Universalist / Folkish schism or “Meta….thingymagidder ( and yes i DO know what McNallen means by it. It is still poppycock, scientifically, historically, culturally, archeologically and ethically. Go by it if it sounds right to you, just dont call it “Norse”).
All religions and cultures are essentially syncretic (i dare you to give me an example of a “pure” religion).
Afro / Caribbean religions have used Catholc iconography as “masks” for a long time and in some cases there is more syncretism than that (Brazilian Umbanda being an example).
As i understand it some Native American peoples, first Nations,Innuit, Samer and other indigenous peoples has closed rank, doing their best to keep more important parts of their cultures to themselves.
I can understand that too as i see helmets with silly ornaments,supremacist groups, guru´s,viking romanticists and even our own tourist industries rape our heritage (silly little ships, “vikings” with hornes, leprechauns drinking beer. Examples of crap produced in abundance by Scandinavian and Irish interests).
I DO wear a kilt sometimes, though arguably the kilt (as the “kjalta” ) has shared Norse origins, i, like most, associate it with Scotland and i would love pissing certain people off by forming a band of Heathen, black, gay, kletzmer musicians wearing it.
At the same time, i hate the misrepresentation of cultures and the disrespect of entire heritages.
The ethnocentric “understanding” of other peoples ways by reshaping them the way we want them.
I am a Kabbalist, but i ACKNOWLEDGE the Kabbalah´s Jewish roots, as well as the fact that i´m a gentile and my studies will never be entirely like that of a Jewish Chassid (or other group).
I ACKNOWLEDGE the syncretisms of Hermetic Qabalah ( i study strictly Judaic sources/traditions too, and TRY to have a Jewish frame of mind as i do it, realizing that it wont work a 100%).
All being said and done i think it all comes down to respect, integrity and honesty, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually.
A study by Ronald Hutton compared a number of different sources (including membership lists of major UK organizations, attendance at major events, subscriptions to magazines, etc.) and used standard models for extrapolating likely numbers. This estimate accounted for multiple membership overlaps as well as the number of adherents represented by each attendee of a Pagan gathering. Hutton estimated that there are 250,000 Neopagan adherents in the United Kingdom, roughly equivalent to the national Hindu community.
A smaller number is suggested by the results of the 2001 Census, in which a question about religious affiliation was asked for the first time. Respondents were able to write in an affiliation not covered by the checklist of common religions, and a total of 42,262 people from England, Scotland and Wales declared themselves to be Pagans by this method. These figures were not released as a matter of course by the Office of National Statistics, but were released after an application by the Pagan Federation of Scotland. From a British population of 59 million this gives a rough proportion of 7 Pagans per 100,000 population. This is more than many well known traditions such as Rastafarian, Bahá’í andZoroastrian groups, but fewer than the ‘Big Six’ of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism and Buddhism. It is also fewer than the adherents Jediism, whose campaign made them the fourth largest religion after Christianity, Islam and Hinduism.
The UK Census figures do not allow an accurate breakdown of traditions within the Pagan heading, as a campaign by the Pagan Federationbefore the census encouraged Wiccans, Heathens, Druids and others all to use the same write-in term ‘Pagan’ in order to maximise the numbers reported. The PaganDASH campaign actively worked with the ONS to amend the rules for The 2011 UK Census, allowing pagans to write their denomination in the form “PAGAN – path”. This was to reduce problems as encountered in the 2001 Census such as a range of Neopagan paths being counted under atheist.
Census figures in Ireland do not provide a breakdown of religions outside of the major Christian denominations and other major world religions. A total of 22,497 people stated ‘Other religion’ in the 2006 census; and a rough estimate is that there are 2,000–3,000 practicing Pagans in Ireland as of 2009. Numerous Pagan groups – primarily Wiccan and Druidic – exist in Ireland though none are officially recognised by the Government. Irish Paganism is often strongly concerned with issues of place and language.
Paganism in Scandinavia is dominated by Ásatrú (Forn Sed, Folketro). The Swedish AsatruSociety formed in 1994, and in Norway theÅsatrufellesskapet Bifrost formed in 1996 and Foreningen Forn Sed formed in 1999. They have been recognized by the Norwegian government as a religious society, allowing them to perform “legally binding civil ceremonies” (i. e. marriages). In Denmark Forn Siðr also formed in 1999, recognized in 2003 and in Sweden Nätverket Gimle formed in 2001, as an informal community for individual heathens. Nätverket Forn Sedformed in 2004, and has a network consisting of local groups (blotlag) from all over Sweden.
In German-speaking Europe, Germanic and Celtic Paganism co-exist with Wicca and Neoshamanism. Paganism in Latin Europe (France, Italy, Spain) focuses on Neo-Druidism and Esotericism based on megalith culture besides some Germanic Pagan groups in areas historically affected by Germanic migrations (Lombardy). Paganism in Eastern Europe and parts of Northern Europe is dominated by Baltic and Slavicmovements, rising to visibility after the fall of the Soviet Union (except for Latvian Dievturība which has been active since 1925). Since the 1990s, there have been organized Hellenic groups practising in Greece.
The Church of the Guanche People is a Pagan sect founded in 2001 in the city of San Cristobal de La Laguna (Tenerife, Canary Islands,Spain). According to its followers this organisation aims to revive and spread the pagan religion of the Guanche people. It was founded by a group of Canarian citizens, devotees of the goddess Chaxiraxi. The Church of the Guanche People performs baptisms and weddings according to aboriginal Guanche forms. On December 14, 2003, the first wedding for more than 500 years was held according to the aboriginal Guanche rite on the island of Tenerife. In 2008 the group had approximately 300 members.
Though i think they are mainly superb there is still a matter of source criticism and the fact that a lot of what we “know” is merely educated guesses at best.
*The term “Pagan” here seems to be put mainly on north European warrior type cultures (Celts, Germanics,Slavs, Finns) while in fact the term is generally applied to pre Christian / Islamic / Judaic cultures in general (especially in the areas that where to become dominated by Abrahamic religions.
Also, religous cult acts spanning thousands of years in different cultures (though “neighburs” by our standards) are a bit TOO compared.
* There is a lot of talk about a “Deal with nature” and “pagans” are portrayed as living close to it. Fact is that many Pagan cultures had large urban centers, priestly classes, centralized cults and reciprocality was between man and cosmic powers, not “only” local ones.
The “domains” of many Gods have little to do with nature (in the “stroll in the woods” sense of the word).
* It is easy to get the idea that all bog bodies where sacrifices. Fact is in many cases we dont know if it was sacrifice, execution, murder or , most likely all of these (or at least different reasons depending on culture and region).
Bog bodies have been found all over Europe ( well, at least Denmark, Ireland and Germany and others).
“Old Crogan Man” in Ireland was Hacked to pieces, got his nipples cut of and seems to have been spread along a border (?). One speculation is a former King being deposed.
“Tollund Man” in Denmark was hanged. One speculation is that it was a sacrifice to Odin (Hangadrott = God of the hanged).
*Describing Viking Age society as “homophibic” is only correct in some definitions of “Viking Age” (this silly term).
My research seems to indicate that showing a lack of masulinity, or outright femeninity, in a man only was seen as causing “ergi” after the comming of Christianity (there was no clear “border” where Norse people suddenly became Christian, it was gradual).
If somone has sources contradicting this i would love to study them.
Also, sex between men wasnt the problem, it was lack of maskulinity that caused the “ergi”.
The interpretation from a practical standpoint would be that the “active” part was considered dominant (and thus still manly), while the passive / recieving one would be considered submissive (less manly).
There where threats of rape between men in the Sagas (thus indicating that the perpetrator wouldnt be seen as unmanly, while the victim, ofcourse, would be humiliated).
My personal guess is that earlier Germanic societies (like most European societies) couldnt care less who you slept with as long as you married the opposite sex (wich was more a practical business than romantic anyway).
Just saying, there is no way of comparing Germanic rural,decentralized blots with the large temple, centralized cult of Ra Herekty in Egypt.
Both would be classified as “pagan” by many though.
Both where “sacrificial” and both had sacral Kingship but that´s pretty much it.